Galley Brag #15
Adam Vitcavage of Debutiful (!) on his genre trifecta (sad/horny/weird), what Dungeons & Dragons has in common with autofiction, and why debut books are just the freaking best <3
Two-parter vibes!!! Adam interviewed me 😳 and then I interviewed him 😇!!! Anyways you should go check it out 👼 …if you dare 😈…at the link below (and here!)🧚
AV: So this is what it feels like to be on the other side…
EK: <laughs> Thank you so much again for doing this. Do you wanna first start by introducing yourself and your role in the publishing ecosystem?
AV: Yeah, my name is Adam. I run a website called Debutiful—that also has a podcast—where I try to expose readers to emerging writers and debut books. I've been doing Debutiful since 2019. And, before that, I wrote for Electric Lit, LitHub, The Millions, and some alt-weeklies. I just want people to read hot new voices.
EK: Cool. Why did you start Debutiful, and at what point did it become the behemoth that it is today?
AV: I was writing freelance for those websites I mentioned. And I wanna say it was Jo Lou—who was, at that point, the Interviews Editor at Electric Lit—who said something like, you know, we really like the interviews that you do, but we just can't say yes to all of them.
I mean, there was much more that she said, and I was like oh, yeah that’s fine. But that’s when I realized that a lot of the books that were being published or pitched to me at that time were debuts.
And, at that time, I was working for the state government in Arizona, and I thought of the name Debutiful on December 19th, and I launched the website January 2nd. There was not a lot of thought put into it.
And this is not a full-time gig for me. I work full-time at a nonprofit. Outside of reading, I spend, like, ten hours a week on it, max.
EK: That's very impressive. You're gonna have to teach me your ways because Galley Brag is taking up a ton of my time right now.
AV: Yeah. I think it’s because I’m terrible at email. If anyone emails me, they’ll get a response two weeks later unless it's urgent. I wanna say, outside of reading, I probably spend an hour a day for sure on Debutiful doing admin during my lunch hour.
I do interviews when I can for the podcast or the website, and my lists I do on Sundays. I always write on Sundays because my wife loves the NFL; she loves football. She’ll be watching football, and I'll be just clacking away on my laptop.
AV: Um, but why do I do it? I think because I realized that there were so many voices out there that weren't getting the coverage I thought they deserved. I once interviewed for a job in the book industry, and they asked me why Debutiful? And I was like, I just like that they're green. You know? I've interviewed Jesmyn Ward. I've interviewed Garth Greenwell. I've interviewed Michael Chabon. Right? And they're brilliant people, but the excitement and the nervousness of talking to a debut writer is probably my favorite thing.
EK: No, that's so exciting. And I have so many questions. First of all, do you have any aspirations to work in publishing?
AV: I thought I did. I think I have more of an aspiration to run a bookstore. I worked part-time at a bookstore in Phoenix called Changing Hands where I got into doing event stuff. And I actually started Debutiful when I was working one day a week in Phoenix. When I moved to Denver, I was the book event manager at Tattered Cover. I'm thirty-six now, and, by forty-five, I would like to have a bookstore, or whatever that means.
I like doing book events for sure. I think about getting into community book events. That's what interests me. I thought I wanted to work in book marketing or publicity—and I think I'd be good at it—but I don't wanna move to New York.
AV: I don't know. This is part-time for me. I don't know if I want to go back to doing it full-time. Or rather, I don't know if I wanna do books full-time working for someone else.
EK: Yeah. Well, there's a lot in what you just said. Obviously, I think it's great to have people outside of the “industry” who have a genuine pleasure for reading and come to books from a particular angle like you do. You are excited and passionate enough about books where you're willing to carve out time in your week to promote them, but it's not an obligation. At the end of the day, you control what you cover and what you don't.
And that's something I've been thinking about a lot with the book media freelance landscape. I was talking to Grace Byron who has this book Herculine coming out in October. I don't know if you've read it, but it's so fucking good. I want to handsell this book on the street because I just think it's that brilliant.
EK: Um, anyways, Grace was talking about how, as a freelance book reviewer, it’s really hard to convince people to let you cover debuts. Because, obviously, the outlets are going for engagement and clicks and blah blah blah. But also, the media landscape has changed so much, probably even more so since you were freelancing?
It felt like there was a time where there were mastheads of book people who covered books full time, and now it feels like The Wild West where everyone's freelancing and pitching things. And that's awesome—and sort of democratizing in a way—but it's also hard to think about, like, okay, who is gonna cover this book? And so, I think it's great you're not only dedicated to covering books but also putting a particular emphasis on the types of book that are often getting slighted in this way…which, I don’t know why, because I also love debuts!
AV: Yeah, it is interesting. I actually turned down advertising money for Debutiful, much to my wife's chagrin. I just do what I do. If I want to take a two week vacation to Europe, like I just did, I can go and not be stressed about clicks or anything, right? And maybe that’s not the right way to do this, but when it comes to book coverage, I've seen a lot of people lose their jobs over the years...
I remember some freelance book critic tweeted something like, where do I pitch reviews? everyone I've pitched to is gone. You know? And I don't have that worry because I'm not trying to make money off this necessarily. I don't really know exactly where I was going with that, but it's crazy to see how much the book media landscape has lost in the past six years.
EK: It's interesting, and I totally feel you with your thing about making money. I have, like, eleven paid subscribers. So every few weeks I’ll get an email that's, like, your $2.13 is being delivered to your bank account. I'm like, hell yeah. But it's interesting talking to book content people, because I assume so many more people make money and do this full-time than they actually do.
EK: And it’d be interesting to track how that drive for clicks and advertising influences what decisions someone makes and what books someone decides to cover or not cover. In many ways, I feel like publishing has become this aggregated system where a book that gets two big reviews is gonna get ten thousand more because people are interested in being in-conversation with something that grabs people’s attention. And then, again, these books that are not getting the million-dollar marketing campaigns get lost.
But you have a very interesting point of view because not only are you working to cover debuts, but you're also one of just a handful of people to pitch to. I'm sure you're getting, like, an insane amount of influx. Do you track the numbers of how many books you get pitched vs how many of those books you end up actually reading and covering and all that stuff?
AV: Yeah. So this is interesting, because I just posted about this on Debutiful's Instagram. I was gone for two weeks, and I think there were sixteen or seventeen physical books sent to my apartment over sixteen days. Plus all the PDFs I've agreed to receive.
I wanna say I maybe get three hundred and sixty-five physical books a year?
EK: That’s crazy.
AV: And some of them I don't ask for. On Debutiful's website, I have something where I’m like, send me books if you want to. I wanna say that I get like a thousand pitches a year, right? I had an out-of-office set up for Debutiful while I was away, and when you have an out-of-office in Gmail, in your sent folder it’ll show you all the out-of-office responses. And I checked because I knew you were gonna ask me this question, and I had over one hundred and fifty emails that were just pitches. And that doesn't even include ones sent through the submission form on my website.
So, uh, people, if you're reading Galley Brag, you don't need to send me a book. It's not gonna make it better. An email is fine.
But I try to read ten, fifteen, fifty pages of everything...
EK: Whoa.
AV: Well, sometimes I can tell on page one that it's not it, you know? So, of the sixteen books I just got, I'll read through ten, fifteen, fifty pages of each one, and then I'll probably cover two or three in a list or an interview or a podcast or a reading. Um, so it's a lot. There are too many books out there.
EK: I'm impressed that you are literally reading everything.
AV: Not fully, though. I'm dipping my toes into it because I think it's the only way to be fair. Because not everyone can afford the million-dollar pitch campaign. Right?
EK: Yeah, totally. I think that's awesome. I'm curious, so you work nine-to-five, and you said you do admin stuff sometimes. When are you dipping into and reading all of these books?
AV: I love to wake up early. My wife wakes up early to work out; you powerlift. I don't do that. I read.
EK: You're like, I'm exercising my mind.
AV: Exactly. I treat it like the gym. So, before work, and then after work, and before bed.
Sometimes I have books on top of my refrigerator…not intentionally, but when I get the mail, sometimes I just put them there. And so it's like, if I'm already getting something out of the fridge, I’ll just pop it open and read two pages, you know? I think I was doing the math earlier, and I maybe finish two and a half books a week. I'm never just reading one thing.
EK: I love this. It's kinda an interesting way to trick yourself into reading by scattering books around your house and forcing yourself to stumble upon them.
I know you were saying that you don't need physical books. Are you someone that equally enjoys ebooks and print books? Like, do you feel like you're more driven to read a physical galley than an egalley?
AV: I think, as a reader, I love physical books. I don't do Kindle, Edelweiss, or NetGalley. I ask for physicals; I ask for PDFs. If they can send it to me, great.
PDFs are different because I can control it. I can just scroll. I don't even know how NetGalley or any of them work, to be honest with you. I've never downloaded it.
But I love physical books. I listen to books, but not for Debutiful coverage. The audiobooks I do listen to are all sci-fi or horror, like, genre books. But, if I’m reading a PDF of a book I really like, I’ll usually ask them to send me the book. Normally, publishers will also send the physical book along with the PDF, and I like to start reading the book as a PDF when I get it.
EK: Yeah. I feel the same way with audiobooks. The types of books that I would not typically turn to on the page are the ones I listen to on audio. I love anything that feels more like a stage play; something that’s really pacey, plot-y, and very heavy on the dialogue. If there’s any literary description in an audiobook, I'm immediately zoning out and losing my place.
As you mentioned, obviously you're reading constantly. Do you have time to read anything that is not a debut?
AV: I've been better at it. I'm also lucky because I’m reading so many debuts that are really good. You know what I mean? It's not like I’m reading slush; like, these are all books that are being published.
I was just on vacation in Scandinavia and I picked up Let the Right One In, which is a vampire book that became a movie. I read that on an eight-hour train ride, and it was great.
AV: Last year I focused on reading Gothic classics. I read Frankenstein, Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, and Dracula…I might have read one more, but I can't remember. So, I try to organize them by themes. And then, of course, audiobooks. I like Star Wars, so I listen to a lot of Star Wars audiobooks.
This year I made the proclamation that I was going to do less Debutiful, but I haven’t. I'm starting to think about what Debutiful will look like in the future, and we can talk about that later on, maybe. Um, but yeah, I try to read non-debut books.
I'm interested in Star Wars. I love Dungeons & Dragons, so any new fantasy that's very cliche Tolkien…I'll eat that right up.
EK: Have you read the book Awakened by A.E. Osworth? You should read it. I think all my friends who love Dungeons & Dragons will love this book because it's silly and fun and it doesn't take itself too seriously. It's about a bunch of trans witches in New York in the current day; it's goofy and fun and very fantastical.
AV: It’s called Awakened? Oh I see it…
EK: It has a really cool cover…
AV: Yeah, very cool…
EK: But that's a sophomore novel, I think.
AV: That's why I don't know about it <laughs>.
EK: That's why! <laughs> Well, speaking of, you’re getting all these crazy pitches for debuts and you're dipping into everything, which is huge. But I’m sure you’re still prioritizing some books over others, right? My question is: let’s say you get an email about a book and you’re like holy shit. This looks so good. I wanna read it right now. What is it about that particular book that excites you? Like, is it the cover? Is it the tagline? Is it the title or the author…?
AV: I definitely think there are imprints I love. And, you know, sometimes it's hit or miss, but I love the Catapult family. I think they do really interesting things. I really like Tin House. I love Riverhead.
So, if I get a book in from those imprints, I'm more inclined to be like, oh, let's check it out. But then there are some imprints that have surprised me. Even if they typically don’t publish books I like, there will always be a nugget every season where I’m like, oh, that’s something interesting—who was editing this?
Which leads me to editors. I don’t follow editors, really—I'm not a groupie—but if I know a particular editor has worked on something, I'm into it.
Like, your books. I was looking on your website, and I was like, three of these books I’ve read and loved and have interviewed—
EK: Yay, that rocks!
AV: So, in terms of my priority list, at first it was imprints, then editors, and now it’s literary agents. If I know a particular lit agent is behind a book, I’ll be like, I trust them; they have good taste.
And, obviously, there's money involved and it's a business—as you know…
EK: Mmhmm!
AV: …but I share a similar taste with a few agents—
EK: Do you have a Publishers Marketplace account?
AV: No, no, I do everything very hodgepodge-y. I try not to go full-on professional with Debutiful. But I'm definitely still paying attention.
And there are some lit agents who will DM me and be like, hey, this is gonna come out, and I can connect you with the publicist or the editor. And I'm like, super duper…
EK: Let someone else do the work for you! You’ve got enough on your plate.
AV: And, you know, they're doing it for themselves, too. Not that Debutiful coverage is gonna make or break anything, but—like you said—if it's gonna get two reviews or blurbs or interviews, it's gonna get fifty…most of the time. Right? Because it's all incestuous.
I do love covers, though. I do have a theory—I know there's a political game behind this—but, if a cover is good, it means the publisher cares about it.
EK: Word.
AV: You know, and that's also part of the business, you know? So, there are things that I pay attention to, but I know it's part of the machine and part of the problem. But yeah, if it has a good cover…like Awakened, which was a sophomore novel, so I won't cover it. I probably won't read it until 2026, but it's a really sexy cover. I would probably pick it up. You know?
EK: Totally, and I’m so curious in talking to you and other people who get pitched books all the time. Because, obviously, everyone in publishing is trying to get a sense of the marketplace, but I’m sure it's so easy for you to pick up on trends very quickly. For example, if you get twenty books in the mail and all the covers look the same, you're like, what is going *on*?
Do you feel like you have—maybe against your will—picked up on these peaks and valleys of different genre trends and types of narrative styles and all that stuff?
AV: Yeah. I think maybe it's just because of what I'm interested in…but like, the sex is sexier? Right? There's a lot of horny and sexy books.
Regardless if it's literary fiction or the romcom, it's like, sex sells now more than ever.
EK: And I think that we need to go back to calling it “horny lit” and not spicy. I think that if you can't say “horny” then you shouldn't be allowed to be working on the book.
AV: Yeah. Maybe it's because I went to this panel at AWP two years ago—and I don't remember everyone that was on it, but Lydi Conklin and Melissa Febos were definitely on it—and it was about how to write sex. So, I think we're getting a little less puritanical…
EK: Yeah.
AV: Um, and I think we don't have enough queer and trans books, but I do think there has been a trend of more of those books being published that are not just limited to “coming out” stories. Um, like, I'm queer, I'm trans, and this is happening, which is super exciting, because that’s what interests me. Like, I know I DM'd you about this, but I'm a straight, boring white guy. I mean, and I love straight boring white guys. I mean, I was obsessed with the straightest, boringest white guys in college: Salinger, uh…
EK: There's something kinda homoerotic about that, I think…
AV: Yeah. But I mean, I wanna be taken to places I wouldn't experience in my own life. And that could be sexuality; that could be location; that could be economic status…like, that's what interests me.
EK: You were saying before that you’re always reading and picking up on a lot of different things. Do you feel like doing Debutiful and dipping into this very wide breadth of writing has changed the way that you operate as a reader? Has it changed what you're gravitating towards, or what sorts of genres you're willing to pick up?
AV: I don't know. I think I've become more willing to not read things I thought I was supposed to like? I think that's the big thing. It's like, sometimes people will pitch me and be like, this is going to be our lead debut, and I’m like, oh man, it didn't land for me though.
I discovered what I like: it's voice; it's pace; and it’s the sense of feeling cozy. And that could mean anything. It could mean like, it's a horror book or it's a fast-paced page-turner, or there are no plots, you know? I actually realized I don't care about plot at all. Like, plot is good and it's fun. But I've learned that I just like to feel like I'm in the book.
EK: Yeah. So, escapism doesn't need to mean, like, Dungeons & Dragons. It can be just escaping fully into someone's auto-fictional life?
AV: Yeah, a good example is—and I bring him up way too much—but Brandon Taylor's books are all about artsy college students. Every single time. No knock to him, but like—
EK: That shit is *so* good.
AV: Exactly. But that is one type of writing that I love where it's, like: I'm just hanging out. These people have messy lives, or sometimes they don’t even have to be that messy…
But then I also love something like Nana Kwame Adjei-Brenyah’s Chain-Gang All Stars. Right? Where it's like: this isn't reality, but it's still a reflection of reality.
When I was in Phoenix, I had this book club—and it was one of those book clubs where I curated it, and it was at a bookstore, so I picked every title. And a friend's mom read every book and she was like, oh, does Adam…is he depressed? I like sad books, you know?
EK: <laughs> word.
AV: Yeah. That's what I like! My Venn diagram is: sad, weird, and horny. If you can give me one of those…
EK: Honestly? And that's where we're headed as a country, so buckle up. <laughs> Um, is there anything where you're like, I actually can't do this? Any subject matter, narrative style where you're like, this is just not gonna work for me?
AV: I mean, I don't cover certain genre stuff, like rom-coms or beach reads. If there are books that blend genres and are like, literary romcoms or whatever, I might read them. But the books that are, like, Too Hot to Handle and it's a book about a chef and it's a romance…that’s definitely not for me.
AV: I think what Debutiful covers and where my interest lies is like: literary fiction with really good writing. Not that romcoms and upmarket fiction don't have good writing, but I just found my lane and I stick to it. I don't do a lot of memoirs anymore. I don't really know how to talk about memoir.
So, normally I’ll pick ten or twelve books a month that I finish, and then that's where I source my interviews from. It’s like, do I think I can make a good conversation out of it? And that’s not necessarily like, is the writer interesting?, but like, would I have fun talking about this?
EK: Going back to what you're saying about buzz…you’re mostly reading books as ARCs, so you’re getting ahead of the big response. But, obviously, there are the big campaign books where you can tell that a publisher is setting something up to be The Big Book. How much do you try to erase that from your mind, and do you feel like that positioning influences how you approach the read?
AV: Um, I don't think it influences my read, but it may make me read it earlier. If they're like, oh, this is our lead debut and we're gonna do a lot with it. It's like, I wanna be part of that. I want Debutiful to feel like it's part of the conversation.
But then there are times where the publisher says, hey, here's our catalog. And they highlight three books and I’ll be like, well, this title isn't highlighted but it looks super good.
I think what I try to do is be one of those early tastemakers. Like, that's why I put out lists so early because it's like, this is what I'm vibing on and what I'm excited about. I try not to read Kirkus or Publishers Weekly reviews. I don't want to know who's getting a star review until after I've read a book.
I don't really follow BookTokers or Bookstagrammers. I don't follow content creators really at all. But I do follow Electric Lit and LitHub and see what they're reading. Or like, I listen to Traci Thomas’s podcast and other people who are not really content creators or influencers, per se.
I try to view myself more as media. That’s where I like to position myself. So, I don’t want to be influenced by anybody. I want to be the influencer, or for Debutiful to be the influencer. Did that answer your question?
EK: It does. I think it's great because it's sort of the antithesis of “the galley brag.” Because what I get frustrated about—I mean, both frustrated by and covet—is these campaigns with huge buzz and excitement where everyone gets obsessed with the book before it's even out. But then—from the outside—I feel like it’s really hard to tell whether a book is even good or not…
AV: Yeah. I mean, it’s nice to see what other people are doing. If my taste aligns with what X, Y, and Z is pushing, then that's great. Then we can talk about it. But I'm not gonna read something super early or cover something just so I can be in the buzzy conversation.
I mean, a good example is that I missed Martyr last year. I didn't read it until November, and it came out in January.
There are books that are so buzzy that eventually I will read them because I feel like I need to. I had a feeling you'd ask me about this, but I’m thinking about what my favorite books are all the time. And I’ll put a list out, but I never know whether other people are gonna list them.
And then sometimes, like, my top twelve—The Debutiful Dozen—I’ll list a book and no one else likes it. Or I’ll discover it got panned reviews, you know?
EK: Which rocks, honestly. Not the pans, but that you list ‘em anyways…
AV: Yeah, and I’m like: I don't care about what other people are thinking. I only care about what *I* think.
EK: Well, in terms of the best books of the year, how do you keep track of everything? Do you know when you read something where you're like, holy shit. This is gonna be in my top twelve. Or how do you capture that excitement so when it's December, you can be like, oh yeah, that February book was really good…?
AV: Yeah. I think there are books where I’ll mark them down after I read and be like, this is it. I’m going to list it. Where I list it, I don't know…
Overall, I try not to look at my list. I don't look at what I've covered, I just let myself go with what immediately pops into my head, since those are the books that likely made a big impression on me.
So, that's how I do it. But then, eventually, I’ll systematically go through everything I've read. I’ll go month-by-month and look at like, what were the top three this month? And then I’ll make a list. Like, one book I can say that will most likely be on the end of list is The Edge of Water. It came out from Tin House and the author’s name is Olofunque Grace Bencoli.
EK: I have literally not read that.
AV: Yeah, it came out in February with Tin House. But, another book that's not even out yet but I think will be on a “best of” list is Hot Girls with Balls.
EK: Uh-huh.
AV: Those are two books that are just popping in my head when I close my eyes. I don't know if they’re the best, but–
EK: I mean, The Edge of Water has such a gorgeous cover. I don't know why I haven't seen this?
AV: Well now you have…
EK: …and now I have!
AV: And that's all I want Debutiful to do. I've done my job for the month. I feel satisfied.
EK: Do you feel like you have any hot takes on what you think publishing can do better to support debuts? Especially in these cases where you love a book and then are like, oh this kinda fell off…
AV: When I was an undergrad—I went to Arizona State—I had to take a class called ASU 101. It was basically like “how to be a college student” because they didn't want dropouts. And I think there needs to be a similar class like, “how to be a published writer.”
Like, I know Publishers Weekly has these publicity incubators and there are classes you can take. But I think imprints and publishers need to have 101 classes—but maybe you already do? Like, you're a 2025 debut. We're gonna put you all in a Zoom together once a quarter and you can talk to each other and ask questions.
EK: Okay, that’s it! Publishing is fixed.
AV: I mean, I just interviewed Denne Michele Norris who has been with Electric Literature for a while and is a known entity. And she was like, I'm a debut and I have no clue what's happening.
So that’s what I'm trying to do when I interview people like you or Meg Reid from Hub City. We have to have a space to ask the dumb questions that we're too afraid to ask elsewhere.
EK: No. I mean, I think that's smart. When I was talking to Emma Copley Eisenberg, she mentioned being in this group chat with Denne and Hilary Leichter and talking about this. Just being like, what the fuck is going on? at all times. And we were talking about what changed from her first book to her second book. And a lot of it is just knowing what you can and cannot say no to.
I think there's this expectation that publishers know best, and, like, we would probably like to keep that notion going. But, in many ways, the more a debut author knows, the more they can actually advocate for themselves and anticipate what's to come. Like, what do I *not* want my cover to look like? And how do I *want* someone to pitch my book?
And honestly that would just make everyone’s jobs better. Because I see being an editor as being a translator of the book to all the different departments so that everyone has a firm understanding of what the book is. And—in many ways—it can be very easy for someone to kick off a game of telephone and then suddenly there’s this really fun, snappy tagline in the copy, but it actually doesn’t capture the book at all. And then readers are disappointed. But that doesn't mean the book is bad, it just means it was set up incorrectly.
I mean, I think the idea of a formal “debut class” is smart. I’ve heard of authors that are in debut author Discords and sometimes it is very helpful, but it also seems like it can be the worst place on earth. Because people will be like this list came out and you’re on it but I’m not on it. It just very quickly becomes this breeding ground for jealousy and bad feelings.
EK: But I think so much of the experience of being an author is very isolating because your job is to sit in a room and write your book, and then suddenly you’re expected to be this public figure and have an instant community to draw on.
AV: Yeah, yeah. I think it’s interesting…and I don't think there is an answer. But I think some sort of class—even if it’s unofficial—would be great. Like, you're gonna be in this together and it’s not about jealousy. Because I think those discourses and Slacks…I mean, I was talking to this group of writers at AWP, like, in person. And I was like—I mean, I obviously didn’t say this at the time—but I was planning on covering two of their books that I really liked, but I didn’t like the third person’s book.
Then it’s like, what should I say? Like, oh, you know, it just wasn't for me. Should I be honest with them? Or should I just ignore it? So then—when the list eventually does come out—I'm behind a keyboard or whatever. It’s just weird. I mean, this isn’t really in response to anything you asked, but…
EK: I mean, I actually do want to ask you something because like, you're in Denver, right?
AV: Denver, yeah. Like, no one comes here.
EK: Well, my question is: obviously you're outside of the New York Publishing Bubble, but you’re still going to AWP and all of these events…Do you feel like it's gotten harder as you've gotten more integrated into the book world to be objective? Does it feel stickier?
AV: Yeah. With publicists, I know they're just doing their job, but that's who I talk to the most. I’ll be honest with them. I'm like, it just wasn't for me. And it’s not too bad because that's all behind the screen, right?
But, with writers, I think I've kinda become literati or whatever—
EK: <laughs>
AV: …or at least in a sense where everyone is following each other. Like, I would totally be friends with you, but that doesn’t mean I liked your book necessarily.
That's why I have @vitcavage. Like, on Instagram, Adam exists and then there’s Debutiful. Those are two different things. I don't really even post about books anymore. I mean, I post about Debutiful on my personal accounts, but I want people to know who I am as a separate entity to Debutiful.
But it’s tricky because there are events where I'm invited to speak to cohorts, or something. And sometimes I’ll be like, I didn't even know your book existed. And I wanna be like, your publicity team did a bad job.
But it is sticky, and I do feel bad. But I've never selected a book or read a book because I felt like I needed to. That's vital.
EK: Is there anything you have in that you wanna brag about that you're super excited to read, or anything you've just read where you're like, I can't wait for this to come out so I can talk to people about it?
AV: Yeah. A book I've been looking forward to for a long time and I just got while I was on vacation is Dwelling by Emily Hunt Kivel.
EK: That's a cool cover.
AV: Yeah. Great cover. But this book was on my radar, I think, because I followed her on Twitter because I was like, oh, she's writing interesting things for x, y, and z.
And this is a debut coming out in August, and I've known about it for a while and I got it in April. That's kind of my timeline. It's like four months out when I'm reading books, too.
So, that's one of my brags. Another one is–
EK: It sounds really good. I'm reading the copy now.
AV: Yeah. That's right up my alley <laughs>. Umm, what did I read that was good? Lemme pull up my list…
Well, a book I'm really excited about is Extinction Capital of the World by Mariah Rigg.
AV: She lives in Denver, and we’ve become friendly. We've gotten coffee. So she’s also one of my first “lit” friends that I met through the Denver literary scene.
EK: My friend Rachel Sargent is the editor at Ecco! She’s great.
AV: Yeah, I love short story collections. Um, another book that I’m excited about is Gulf by Mo Ogrodnik. It's told through a prism of female voices across the Arabian Gulf. And, you know, I just like women more than men in general, or straight men, rather. Cis men. I like to hear voices I don’t speak to every day. And I’m actually not interviewing her, which is rare when I really love a book.
EK: Wait. So how do you decide who to interview, or is it, like, based on just what the publicist is pitching?
AV: No. So I actually hate when people will be like, hey, this person will be great for your podcast or the website for an interview. I pick, like, the ten books that I finished and I liked. It's pretty rare for me to finish a book and not list it, right? Because I will stop at any time.
So, I’ll do podcast interviews and the First Taste Reading Series readings, and then I’ll do long form web interviews as well. And they are all equal game to me. It’s like, who are the people I wanna talk to? And who do I wanna hear read? etc.
AV: Um, well, so I'm really rambling. How do I decide? It’s kinda a thing where I’m like, who would I want to talk to for an hour? And also like, what's the best book I read?
But Gulf is a good example. I just forgot to reach out to the author because I'm doing so much. And so I'll probably try to do something with her later in the year. I also do something called My Reading Life, which is like an emailed Q&A. And those are books where I’m like, I wish I had time to interview you, but I don’t. Like, I wish I could interview millions of people, but I just can't.
EK: Do you ever hate-read stuff?
AV: No, I don't have time. I really wish I could. I'm not a huge fan of Sally Rooney, but I don’t hate her. My wife read Intermezzo, and she said it was fine.
EK: Yeah, I've not read it yet. I had a Book Date with Tembe Denton-Hurst, who also has a Substack (s/o Extracurricular !!!) like everyone else in this damn town. Anyways, she interviewed me, and we went to a bookstore. And I was like, oh, I don't have Intermezzo yet. Because I got a copy from a publishing friend but then I lent it to a different publishing friend and I’ve never gotten it back...
EK: Anyways, I was telling Tembe this, and this older woman comes up to us and says the same thing. She was like, don't read it. I didn't like it. I'm mad that I bought it. We're like, okay, diva!
AV: Yeah. I don't have time to hate-read. I barely have time to read things I like, you know? And I have a terrible memory, so I forget plot a lot, which I think is why I don't care about it.
I'm all about feelings, vibes. What did this make me feel? Did it move me? Was I like, oh, hot damn. That's a real character.
EK: Yeah. Any final hot takes or books you want to shout out?
AV: Oh man. Any books from Debutiful's Most Anticipated List are my main galley brag. I'm also already starting to receive PDFs of books coming out in 2026, which is exciting and stressful! And then, if you’re ever looking for suggestions, I obviously also just published my Best Books of 2024 (So Far!).
AV: My hot take is—and I think I said this recently—but not everyone needs a podcast. And also, if you don't read a website's submission guidelines and you're just blindly emailing, I can tell. And I instantly will hit “delete.” That’s not a hot take. It just annoys me so much when people are like, check this out! It's my third book in a sci-fi series. I get so mad.
I don’t know…what else? I think I just want people to enjoy reading. Maybe you could have a podcast. It's fine.
EK: No. I don't want a podcast. I only want a podcast if I'm going to be paid for it. I can't keep working for free.
AV: Yeah, I mean I’m not sure if this will make it into the final Galley Brag, but I don’t consider Debutiful a podcast. I know most people do. Numbers-wise—and maybe you'll find this interesting because you've been asking questions like this—but my lists are what get the biggest numbers. The website is, like, 70% of my traffic.
EK: Well, that makes sense because it's, like—and I could have another ten-hour long conversation about lists, which drive me fucking insane...
I mean, they're awesome. And it’s awesome that you do them. But they can be so demoralizing to authors, especially when you’re seeing the same ten books over and over and over again. When a Most Anticipated list drops and you’re like, frantically scrolling through your phone trying to see if your author made it. And then it’s like, does anyone really care? I mean, maybe it’s helpful for people who are, like, Googling what books to read.
AV: Yeah. Exactly.
EK: But like, people are turning to you as a tastemaker to suggest what books to read, which is great. Like, what debuts do I wanna read that are not the five books getting thrown at me on TikTok?
AV: Lists are bullshit, but they're so helpful. Even with the giant newspapers with their End of Year lists, there is so many political games.
EK: Oh my god. Everything's political. You know, like, I know you know this, but I think a lot of people outside of publishing don’t know that The New York Times bestseller list is heavily editorialized.
AV: And that's exactly who I was referencing. I mean, with Debutiful, I'm just one guy. I can't read everything. Even if I do read everything, I have a very specific taste. I like calling my monthly list Noteworthy Debuts because it looks better on SEO, but it really is Adam's Favorite Books.
EK: Well, that’s another thing that I’ve learned over my years in publishing. I think it can be very easy for authors to get demoralized because they'll be like, oh, X, Y, Z publication didn't include this so they hated my book, or I wasn't chosen for this thing so my book is bad. At the end of the day, the good and horrible part about publishing is that everyone's literally just a person. There's actually not any sort of grading rubric—as much as maybe they would want to outsource that to AI, or whatever. Like, it’s a lot of people at every step either having an emotional reaction or not, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not a good book.
Even with a fancy newspaper, it really is just one or two people reading these books who have specific likes and dislikes and are, like, flawed and complex human beings. You can try to be objective, but you can always just not connect with something because you read it on a weird day. Like, you really never know.
AV: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I’m just rambling, but there are books that I’ve left off of end of year lists that have won awards for Best First Novel. You know what I mean? Or Best Debut Short Story Collection. And it’s not that I didn't like them. It's just like, I mean, I think my lists are too long at the end of the year, even.
I see these “Best 100 Books of the Year” lists and I’m like, what are we doing? And I'm part of the problem now. My lists have gotten bigger because they make my clicks better. But it's like…
EK: Ugh, now we see behind the machine…the clicks…
AV: Yeah. I think if you want to have an off-the-record conversation down the road, let me know. Cause I have thoughts. I have thoughts. But I'll say this: at the end of the day, I don't think there's been a book that I've said is my favorite book of the year that I regret. I will stand by it until the end of time.
EK: Love it. Well, on that note, thank you so much again for chatting! This was really great.
AV: Yeah, next time I'm in New York, let's get coffee.
EK: Yes, please. Next time I'm in Denver, I'll hit you up.
AV: Please do. I have a reading series. If you wanna ever read from Galley Brag…
EK: Absolutely not <laughs>, but thank you for the offer. Um, enjoy the rest of your day…are you before me or after me in time? I always forget…
AV: It’s five pm here.
EK: Wow. You have so much day left.
AV: Yes, I have to go walk my dog and eat dinner, but this was fun.
EK: Amazing. Okay, so fun. Talk soon!
AV: See you. Cheers!
I’m once again plugging Debutiful.net!! Adam is doing such great work (and I don’t just mean interviewing me on his podcast hehe) and you should like/subscribe/all the things!! <3 <3 <3
Ahhh Adam listens to The Stacks?!? I’m honored.