Galley Brag #9
Clare Mulroy of USA Today on niche reader trends, the books that make her cry (sob!), and the importance of queer villains + mess.
EK: I'm so glad we could do this! Do you wanna start off by introducing yourself and what you do in the publishing ecosystem?
CM: Absolutely. I'm a book reporter, which is so exciting to get to say because this has always felt like a dream job for me. I cover a variety of things: I do a lot of stuff with new releases; I'll cover new book announcements, reader culture and trends, and also do some author interviews, which is really fun. I've been covering books at USA Today in some capacity for about a year, but I’ve only been full time for about two months.
EK: Oh my gosh, congrats!
CM: Yeah, <laugh> thank you. I'm still pretty new to it. I kinda laid low for the holidays and then dove in headfirst on January 1st. It's been the craziest month and a half of my life, but also the most fun ride ever <laugh>.
EK: Do you feel like since whatever announcement went out, you've been receiving one million books and pitches?
CM: Yes! I feel like our office manager is like, what is happening here? Because every day I'm at the office, she comes in with this huge stack of packages.
EK: Is that fun for you? Or is it stressful?
CM: No, it's so fun. I feel a little bit bad for my carbon footprint because of how much waste it's generating. So, I'm trying to be diligent about using NetGalley as much as I can. But it really does feel like Christmas every day.
EK: Whenever I get back to the office after a break and have packages on my desk I'm like, oh my god, who sent me this?? And it's always books I ordered myself from the warehouse.
But the carbon footprint thing is really hard. I was just talking to someone else who literally cannot read on screens for health reasons. So they're like, I *actually* need a physical copy. It's so much paper, but the alternative is also horrible...especially as someone who reads a majority of things on the computer.
CM: For the most part, I do read on paper. I just prefer it. There's just something that can't be topped about reading from a physical book. I have been becoming a little bit of an iPad baby because of this job. I just have so many books on there, and especially if I'm doing a speed read for something I'm covering, it’s just easier.
So, I'm getting used to the Kindle format. That's been a new journey for me as a reader. Over the past year, I've also gotten more into audio books. I feel like I went from being only a physical reader to now reading across so many formats.
EK: Well, obviously our jobs are very different, but I feel like when you have to read so much for work, the only way to do it is to have multiple books you're reading across formats. I'll have a physical book I'm reading for pleasure, a few submissions on my phone on my Kindle app, and then I'll listen to a different audiobook while I cook and do laundry. You kinda have to cram it in where and when you can get it. Like, if I wake up earlier than my partner on the weekend, I'm like, okay, lemme see how much of this submission I can read on my phone...
But, I'm curious, do you keep all those galleys? Do you donate them? Do you feel like you identify as a book collector, and has that changed with the sheer amount of books you're receiving?
CM: I think the ones that are really beloved to me, I'll keep absolutely. I have a shelf with all of my favorite books—I mean, I have so many bookshelves—but I wouldn't call myself a collector. I'm not someone that is going out and looking for special editions...
If there's a book that I was kinda so-so on, I'm very quick to run to a Little Free Library.
EK: I'm sure whatever Free Library is on your street is like, actually please stop. There's too many books.
CM: Yeah, well I'll wait until the pub date passes, and then I'll run out and check out my Little Free Library app tracker, and I'll go around...
EK: Oh my god, I didn't know there was an app??
CM: Yes! It's life-changing. They have an interactive app where you can see all the libraries. Especially if I'm out and about, I'll be like, okay, this is near my destination, so I'll go and drop them off there <laugh>.
EK: That's so fun. Someone else I was talking to mentioned that there's a marketplace where people can sell galleys. It's called Mercari or something?
CM: Oh, that sounds a little scary to me.
EK: It's so scary. Well, on the galley brag note, I'm sure in researching for your article you've seen this, but it feels like genre publishers really go off for their fan base versus like, I'm obviously working more with debut authors that don't have a preexisting fan base. So you're trying to do more of that guerilla marketing with it to get people to see it as a status-y thing.
Someone was saying that for certain fantasy or sci-fi books they'll have four different ARCs with different covers and people will try to trade or buy them off each other. And I'm like, I feel like we're losing the plot here.
Galleys were originally only really for marketing and publicity. Maybe editorial would send it out for blurbs, but by the time you get print galleys, it's kinda too late to get blurbs.
But now it really feels like just another status-y thing. It’s one of eye-roll-inducing things where everyone I talk to is like, oh yeah, this is dumb... but also I one hundred percent participate in it. They're like, this is stupid...but also if I got this book I would feel really special and I would post about it and I would want people to be jealous of me.
CM: Absolutely. It's beyond being just for utility's sake. And you know, I've talked to folks who have been like, I am on the hunt for an ARC of this *because* it feels like a collector’s edition. You know, people sell them on eBay!
So, to some extent, even though I'm not a collector per se, I do understand it. Like my Intermezzo galley, I'm very protective of that. I lent it to a friend, and I was like, just be so careful.
EK: <laugh> You're like, I don't even care about the finished copy, I just need this.
CM: No, but actually. I gave the finished copy to my sister. I felt so honored because the galley has my name in it, and that was before I was a full-time books reporter. It was the first numbered galley I'd ever gotten and the first that had my name in it. It was a big confidential thing and I am such a Rooney head that I was like, I need to have this displayed.
EK: Yes. You're like, I'm framing this and taking out special gloves to touch it.
CM: Yes. <laugh>
EK: Wait, so the numbered galleys are something that's only recently been on my radar. I'm curious about your take on that and why that's happening?
CM: I mean, I don't know a ton about it from the publishing side. But I do think it kind of feeds into the galley as a status symbol. Because not only do you get an early copy, but you see that you're one of X amount of people who got that early copy.
EK: It's so crazy to me. And someone else I was talking to who works in marketing was like, I wonder if they're using it to track who is and is not posting, you know? Because as an editor, you're always like, oh my God, what if X celebrity posted this?, but you also have such a limited number of resources that you only want to send something to someone if you think they'll actually post it and not just have their assistant throw it in the trash.
But I'm just so fascinated by the Galley Industrial Complex because for most books—especially debut books—the galley run is often very limited.
I started working at Harper in September 2019, so I only had a few months before the pandemic, but once we started working remotely, people were like, oh, maybe galleys are over? Because no one was in the office or sending mail, and for a minute people were fine with just reading PDFs and ebooks.
And then very soon it became clear that people still wanted to read on paper, and it was like, okay, maybe we'll just do galleys for fiction or big nonfiction books, but now it's fully back to normal. People are so tired of looking at the computer, but I also think there's a bit more of a reason to dip into a book when you know someone has taken the time to bind this copy and physically send it to you.
CM: Yeah, and the galley brag hits different when it's a physical copy.
EK: Yeah, because you're not gonna post a screenshot of this PDF.
CM: I mean, there's the online part of the galley brag, but also I remember I was at the airport right after I got the Sally Rooney galley, and I was just holding it up....I think there is the in-person element of the galley brag where you're like I'm such a serious reader. And I wonder if people are like, how did she get that?
EK: Exactly. That's like whenever I see anyone on the train reading a finished copy of a book I worked on or a friend worked on, I'll be like, how did you know about this? How did you get that?
Anyways, it’s great that in addition to traditional book coverage—actually reviewing books—you're also facilitating this wider discussion of trends and stuff. Otherwise, in other book outlets, there’ll be features on BookTok or self-publishing or the industry that pop up, but they feel so few and far between.
And again, your piece about BookTok right before the "ban" felt like the first acknowledgement that it was actually happening. It felt like everyone was operating under the assumption where they're like, we're just gonna pretend like it's not happening.
CM: Well, thank you so much, because I feel like that is always my goal. I want to cover the new releases and the announcements, but I feel like I'm not content even as a reader to just read about that. And, personally, no reader trend is too niche for me.
I mean, someone's gotta rein me in, but I love looking at a trend and just being like, what's up with that? For example, we just published an article about Western cowboy romances…
But, specifically with the BookTok thing, that was an interesting story to do because I was running down the clock on that one. I was interviewing all these people and chatting with publishers about what it could mean. And then at the same time I was waiting on that Supreme Court announcement and asking myself—if it did go through, how does that change the conversation? And how can I share the perspective of all these book people before that decision gets made? It was a very hectic day.
And then, of course, we had that quick little blip of it being offline, and then coming back. I feel like I've seen a little bit of the fallout where people are changing the way they interact with TikTok and online book spaces. But it also has been interesting to see things continue with business as usual.
EK: Because I think like a lot of people—when they saw that crazy pop-up about Trump—were like, oh my God, actually I don't wanna do this anymore. But then, for a lot of people they were like, there's not really an alternative that scratches this exact itch. A lot of people were like, oh, I'm gonna start a Substack, I'm gonna do YouTube. I can’t just have all my eggs in one basket, in case this happens again...
But yeah, it does mostly feel like business as usual. What do you see the fallout being?
CM: I mean, the most interesting thing to me is how people are diversifying their platforms, and I think that's gonna continue. I think TikTok will ultimately continue as it had before, but I also think people are fed up with the conversations that are happening on BookTok. Especially when we talk about overconsumption of deluxe editions, or the quick hit videos that lead to a lot of the BookTok drama….A lot of people I spoke with are just kind of over it. They want a more nuanced and in-depth conversation. I spoke to a couple people who were moving to Substack and YouTube, but I also spoke to two creators who started their own magazine called Readin’ Magazine.
As a reader, I always appreciate when people try to be more intentional about their discussions; I wanna have a space that allows me more creativity and time to engage in these discussions rather than everyone feeling like they have to make these quick-hit reaction videos that spark all this BookTok drama <laugh>.
EK: Yeah. I feel like I need a Who Weekly specifically for book drama. 'Cause I'll Google stuff or try to be like, who is the person who said that reading isn't political or that this book had too many words in it? I feel so divorced from those conversations because, obviously with the algorithm, I'm not gonna see those people who are doing the crazy shit. I'm just gonna see the queer people that are like, I read this book, here's my analysis or whatever.
CM: Yeah, and I feel like my feed is a lot like that, too. It's a lot of "queer sad girl lit." And I also come to TikTok as an outsider because I'm not creating content there; I'm really just surveying it to see what's happening.
EK: Well, I also feel like the publishing industry has always thought of itself as a cultural institution with this prestige of being like we are publishing these things and people are reading it, which is very one-directional and obtuse. And I think the thing with BookTok that's made so many publishers uncomfortable is that people are actually figuring out what's going on and how the sausage is made.
Five years ago, the average reader didn't know what an ARC was. And now, obviously, the book content creators that are successful are receiving enough promotional materials and pitches to get a sense of publishing as a business and, in return, those people are also having much more of an influence on what books are being published.
CM: Oh, absolutely. I feel like we've reached a point where readers have so much more of an influence on what's driving the industry, especially on the genre side.
I think the cool part of BookTok is the community aspect of it. Authors are given a space to interact with their readers in a way that hasn't happened before on this scale. You can have those interactions with someone who would typically just be placed on a pedestal. I don't think a lot of writers are influencers by nature. A lot of us are introverted or aren't really social media savvy, but now, you know, you have a place where you can have so much more of a direct link to your readers, and I think that's only gonna continue no matter whatever platform we're on.
EK: Yeah, it's both a gift and a curse—especially for authors who feel pressure to create this whole online persona. And publishers, too, feel this stress and pressure to adapt to what BookTok is hyped about, especially with these genres that are quickly gaining popularity online that might not typically be in a particular imprint’s wheelhouse.
But I think there's another way of looking at it, which is actually a lot more optimistic. I've been thinking about this a lot as someone who publishes a lot of queer debuts…
CM: You need a little bit of optimism.
EK: Exactly! Even if it's totally misguided. And obviously we have the same conversations again and again about how important pre-orders are and how—as a reader—it's really the best way to support an author, but I don't think we're necessarily driving home how influential you can be as a consumer. Especially if you are someone who supports queer and trans people and want these kinds of nuanced books to continue to be published, weighing in with your dollar really does a lot in helping us to continue to elevate these voices.
'Cause the issue with publishing is that it's so comps-based. Even if something is spectacular but doesn't "perform" well, publishers are really hesitant to publish that kind of thing again. And when there is such a small number of books by and featuring underrepresented voices, the odds are stacked against them. Like, the percentage of those books that perform well can be the same as with white cis authors, but there are less of them to choose from.
But when people really rally behind something, and it does well, it means everyone everywhere can do more cool shit. Which is, again, why I’m all for everyone’s books doing well. I feel like it's so easy to throw in the towel, but if we really reframe this for readers as something they have the power to control, or at least collaborate on, I wonder if that might help beat these feelings of powerlessness or outsiderness...
CM: I also think the benefit of the galley brag is you can uplift stories that have been historically underrepresented in publishing. You know, I’m thinking specifically about queer stories and stories by writers of color, but also the resurgence of translated lit.
The existence of social media and these influencers help democratize publishing because readers are not afraid to ask for more of what they want.
EK: It's really interesting, and you're reporting on trends and receiving so many galleys, so I'm sure you can get a sense of what is in the zeitgeist even just from a quick glance at your pile or inbox. What trends do you feel are just now emerging or are about to hit?
CM: Gosh.
EK: Or, if that's too hard, I have an alternative question: what trends do you think are over?
CM: I'm not totally sure if I have an answer, but one thing I will say is I'm excited about books with messy queer protagonists. I'm thinking of V.E. Schwab's forthcoming book about lesbian vampires, which I’m so excited to read. I was at an event with her and she said something that really stuck with me about the importance of queer villains and giving queer protagonists the space to be villainous and messy, and I feel like I'm seeing a rise in that. And I'm hoping that we can see even more of that, especially when we're in such a tumultuous time for queer rights and trans rights and autonomy. I think giving readers a little bit of mess can be really nice.
EK: And fun! Like it doesn't all have to be literary and bleak; it can be fun and elevated.
CM: I think, too, comfort reads are incredibly popular. Of course, they’re not necessarily new, but I don't see them going away anytime soon.
EK: Like the cozy mysteries.
CM: Yeah, but I'm also thinking of family narratives that don't have to have a happy ending, but are generally heartwarming.
I think people are gonna be seeking a lot more of that. I think in the way where we saw things like cozy mystery and cozy fantasy really become popularized during the pandemic. I'm curious to see if that's something that also ramps up in these next few months because of our political state.
I'll also say that dystopian books are absolutely massive right now. I think it was 1984 and Animal Farm that both rose exponentially on our bestseller list. So I would not be surprised if dystopian fiction had a huge renaissance. And I think people are gonna be kind of genre bending when it comes to dystopian narratives, especially in the tech space. I'm very interested to see how people are going to take on AI and flip it on its head.
EK: Well, it's interesting 'cause—to be honest—my submission pile right now is basically one third queer rights, one third dystopian AI/tech, and then a third climate apocalypse. And I think the thing for me that's hard is that these topics are so interesting, but they are often very bleak. I feel like people are looking for something that feels tender and sort of hopeful, even if it's dealing with real themes or consequences.
There's still so much to be hopeful about, and I think readers are looking for books that allow them to see that. But it's definitely such a hard balance to strike.
CM: I also think we're gonna see such an intense split between these two extremes. On one hand, you'll have books that are predicting the future and are dystopian, and then on the other side you'll have the comfort reads that could still deal with really heavy themes, but you still come away from it feeling a little bit better about the world. I just wrote about this after reading This is a Love Story by Jessica Soffer.
EK: Fun! I've seen that everywhere.
CM: Yeah. I mean, it was sad. I cried throughout. I wrote a review on it and I talked more about being a cry baby than I thought I would on the USA Today platform, but that was a book that was so messy and complicated and nowhere near a perfect love story, but I came away from that and was like, god, do I love life.
EK: Yeah. Which we really need right now. <laugh>.
CM: Yeah! Especially with the state of the world right now, that is something I need as a reader, and I know a lot of other people feel the same way. So, I think a lot of people will turn to those comforting romances and the cozy books and the stories that feel just a little bit heartwarming.
EK: Yeah, and because we're running out of time, I'm definitely gonna ask you to send me a list of the books you're excited about. Ah, I have so many questions!!
CM: Rapid fire is okay, too!
EK: Okay, rapid fire. Okay, you have twenty ARCs on your desk that you just got. What do you immediately gravitate towards? Is it cover? Title? Author? Blurb?
CM: I know you shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but I am judging. I’m definitely looking for authors I know or recognize. I love a comp title, especially when something's comped to a TV show or movie.
Like, you tell me Fleabag, you tell me Severance, you tell me Succession, and my interest is definitely peaked.
EK: Has your job changed your relationship to reading?
CM: It's so interesting. I feel like I'm getting used to it still. At the end of the day, I love reading. The fact that I get to read for work is such a blessing. But I do miss being able to just pick up a book. I have a stack of books I got for Christmas that are all backlist titles, and I miss having time to pick those up. I've gotten more into audiobooks, I think because of that. I'm listening to Go Tell It on the Mountain by James Baldwin right now and it's by no means a palate cleanser, but it's something that I'm picking up because I want to read it and not because of work. I have to be more intentional about that.
EK: Hardcover or paperback?
CM: Paperback.
EK: <laugh> Okay, what is the most toxic thing about BookTok?
CM: Oh, I would say short videos because people don't add the necessary nuance or really think about what they're posting before they post it. So, I'm gonna say the format of TikTok itself.
EK: What is the thing that has surprised you the most about the book community or publishing since you started this position full-time?
CM: I think the relationship between book influencers and publishing because I'm kind of in the middle or on the outside of it. It’s interesting to see how a reader can go from someone who just really loves books to someone who has a real influence on publishing. And also it's been interesting to see the different circles that emerge: the romance reader influencers, the litfic influencers, etc.
EK: Okay, book merch, yes or no? Is it effective? Do you like it? Do you hate it? Do you want it?
CM: It depends on the design. My sister has a Little Women shirt and that is the coolest thing I've ever seen. She also has a Sally Rooney shirt; she's a big book merch person. I think for me, I don't care so much, but it is fun. I like to see what people can come up with, and I like seeing the boxes that people receive; the creativity is great. I remember when Haley Jacobson published Old Enough, there were vibrators in her box...
EK: Oh my god, fun. Free stuff will always rock. Okay, what is something in a pitch where you will absolutely be like, fuck no I'm deleting this, don't ever talk to me again.
CM: Okay well this isn’t hard and fast because I have responded to people who do this—and maybe this is a mean answer—but like, when people misspell my name.
EK: No, no, it's real!
CM: Like, it's right there. I always get Claire with an "I,"which is like, of course not terribly egregious, but I love when people put time and care into a pitch. And I feel like that's something that I have to do a lot of in my job: getting people's names right. And I've certainly messed up before, but that is something that will make me a little less likely to look at something. But I definitely have responded to people who misspell my name and have worked with them.
EK: Yeah, I have that with submissions, too. Obviously before I transitioned I had a different name and if someone uses my deadname, I'm like you genuinely—
CM: Well, that's also genuinely malicious.
EK: Yeah, or it's like—you truly haven't Googled me at all or put any care into this pitch, so I'm not responding.
Lastly, what are the galleys you want to brag about??
CM: Hmmmm...galleys I want to brag about...
I'm most excited to dive into Bury Our Bones in the Midnight Soil, the new V.E. Schwab book. It's a lesbian vampire story and has been tempting me from my desk literally every day. Same with Disappoint Me by Nicola Dinan—I absolutely loved Bellies—and Stop Me If You've Heard This One by Kristen Arnett, because I'm so obsessed with the clown/magician premise. And of course I would be remiss if I didn't mention Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid, Sunrise on the Reaping by Suzanne Collins (if I could, I would insert a picture of me playing "Hunger Games" in my backyard in middle school here—side braid and all) and Katabasis by R.F. Kuang, all of which I'm practically jumping-up-and-down excited to read.
something to note with the numbered galley is that it is possibly a way to track who is reselling them because obviously it's not necessarily illegal just frowned upon and for some of the popular ones some folks will list them for truly egregious prices and before the book is even out 😵💫
Loved this!!!! Such a cool POV :,)